E13 – Second Second Breakfast

Click here to download this episode!

– Welcome
– Welcome
– Jared joins us for an episode!
– Trivia winner + Card Design Contest – Check out our Facebook page to enter the vote!

– News
– The Dead Marshes is available now!
– Interview with Nate French & Lukas Litzsinger on TheOneRing.net

– Khazad-dum Preview in Game Trade Magazine #141

– FAQ Version 1.2 released

– Content
– Top 5 Spirit cards-

–  Overview of The Dead Marshes player cards
– Awesome custom quest http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/710317/feonixs-custom-scenario-3-the-culling-at-the-bar
– Sign off

45 thoughts on “E13 – Second Second Breakfast

  1. Unexpected Courage is the most broken. With the song splashing it is a must for any deck and getting 6 out on the table is not even a long shot. On Beravore 14 cards a turn, at instant speed. Any game situation you can tap until you dig your answer.. This one card combo makes every scenario trivial to beat. It really needs the restricted keyword… add will of the west and wtf.. it is game over.. seriously UC is broken.

    Also I completely disagree with you on “nitpicking” These games completely rely on card rule interaction to make them fun and deck building is all about breaking cards. (See Grape Shot in MTG) It is up to the designers to make the cards air tight in their wording so there is zero ambiguity. If they mean something, then they need to make the card say that.. end of story. Some of the card wordings in this game are so loose.

    • I’ve never met anyone in person with their own set of cards to play the game with, so I’ve yet to experience the sheer ridiculousness that having six copies of Unexpected Courage at your disposal has to be; there’s almost no situation where it would ever be anything but an amazing card to draw.

      I really wish we had better phrasing on some (read: most) of our cards. The Cave Troll example we gave was very confusing, and having just played through The Dead Marshes, quest card 2B utterly fails to address what happens if Gollum isn’t in play 😦

      • House rule: if Gollum leaves play, the players win and the entire Lord of the Rings saga can now boil down to a relatively quick and easy journey to destroy the ring.

      • It is not just card draw. How about that deck I call “Encounter Destruction” that uses Denathor. With gelowine and Beravor and bilbo among other effects like mathon, there is still draw to get UC on him 5 or 6 times without a problem. That much control to skry the encounter deck? Crazy. You basically only let cards through you do not care about want. Or UC on a range army on multiple diffrent allys. Just shoot out monsters on your partners table. Attack, untap, attack, untap, attack etc etc (nvr same monster twice)

      • I may be in the minority here, but I actually think the Cave Troll’s ability is pretty straightforward (barring some bizarre Stand and Fight-esque interpretation from FFG). The key, in my eyes, is the phrase “For each…” As far as I can tell, each single point of excess damage is treated as a distinct event and assigned separately. So, you could assign all the damage to a single character (one point at a time) OR divide it among several characters. If it were meant to be assigned only to a single hero or ally, it would be worded like the Hill Troll (“Excess combat damage,” without the “for each” condition).

        It would be more clear if the ability read, “For each…you must deal 1 damage to a character you control.” The fact that it simply directs you to “damage” a character (rather than assign a specific amount of damage) serves to obfuscate things a bit. However, it seems clear that excess damage from the Troll should be assigned point by point.

      • Apologize for multiple comments, but I thought I’d clarify something regarding distribution of excess damage from the Troll. If, as I have posited, the damage is assigned point-by-point, a player can NOT simply dump, say, 4 “trample” damage onto a single Snowbourn Scout. The first point of damage would kill the Scout, and each additional point would have to be assigned somewhere else. So, the player can spread the damage around but cannot simply shunt it off to a weenie.

    • You’ve touched my heart, jj jj 🙂

      Yeah, I’m coming from a writing background, so seeing some of the descriptions on these cards drives me nuts. I understand that some people will find ridiculous ways to bend the rules, but the cards are supposed to be written in a way so that we can avoid confusion like this. I would understand if this were a prioneering card game, but we have had many, many games come out that can be used as a template for how to write these card effects. We need more consistency with terminology, and far less ambiguity with effects.

  2. Hey guys, thanks for another great show! Jared was definitely a nice addition to the Fellowship. Excited to hear your review of The Dead Marshes scenario in the next episode.

    Regarding Stand and Fight, I agree that the use of “may” is a problem. However, I would point out that parenthetical text on player cards usually serves to add an effect or impose additional rules limitations (e.g. “Limit once per round” on Beorn and Glorfindel). Consequently, I suppose you could–should–interpret the Stand and Fight text as a restriction rather than simply a reminder. Still, it’s poorly and ambiguously worded if FFG always intended to prevent players from resurrecting Gandalf.

    Language quibbles aside, I can’t say I’m upset by the ruling. Gandalf spamming just doesn’t appeal to me. I’m more inclined to favor thematic gameplay, and as such I want Gandalf’s appearance to be a dramatic event every time it happens. To me, he should only show up a couple times per game, and only when the party is most in need of his aid. Of course, Sneak Attack is much more of an issue in this regard than is Stand and Fight, but I’m nevertheless pleased to see the Gandalf crutch weakened a bit. Just my two cents.

    As for the player cards from the new AP, there’s certainly a lot to like. Boromir is fantastic, and certainly gets the most out of any attachments you slap on him. The Vassal is pretty solid, especially with the Ranged keyword and its ability to interact with cards like Horn of Gondor and Imrahil. The Song of Mocking works well with Gimli, and it can also turn Gloin into a resource-generating machine. Not really thrilled by either of the new Rohan cards, but Elfhelm’s ability is probably useful enough to warrant a single slot in my deck. As you noted, Silvan Scout is kind of a “promise card,” in that it heralds the release of more Elves in the near future. Even on its own, though, it’s a pretty solid way to soak up attacks. All that said, I think the new Leadership ally is the star of the pack (aside from Boromir, of course). Any card that controls nasty shadow effects is good; adding a capable body is just gravy.

    On a final, somewhat juvenile note, I’m amused by how many “bad” cards seem to have such easily-maligned names. Stand and —–, A —– in the Dark, The ——-mark’s Finest? FFG is making this too easy for you guys 😀
    Keep up the good work.

  3. My favorite piece of unintentional comedy from this episode: “The next one is scoring and this one is interesting for people that score. Now, we rarely do because mostly we’re just playing….” – Brandon

    I gotta say I side with Brian on the topic of Stand and Fight. I assumed from day 1 that Gandalf was a perfectly legal target for this card, and I think it’s rather silly that he no longer is. I agree Gandalf abuse is a lame way to play the game, but saying that text that was in parentheses and includes the word “may” was intended to specifically disqualify neutral characters is a stretch. I think this ruling was done after the fact.

    As you guys were discussing the player cards from the Dead Marshes, a new card combo came to mind. The Song of Mocking seemed to get a lukewarm reaction from the group, but I think it could be a very useful card. One of the biggest threats to the outcome of a session of LOTR can be losing Eowyn to an untimely Treachery card (or to Dol Goldur Orcs), and with Song of Mocking, you have insurance to keep Eowyn alive and questing. If you pair this with the Silvan Tracker, you could put the Song of Mocking on Legolas, have him take any damage for Eowyn, use him to kill something during the turn, and then allow him to heal at the end of the turn.

    • Amen, brother!

      Yeah I have to say, I think a potent combo would be allowing Frodo to take all of Eowyn’s potential damage. My spirit deck is all about threat reduction (did you guys know spirit is good for that?) so it would be a great way to handle some unpredicted damage coming my way, with a much better chance to address it in later rounds. I may have to find a way to get that in my deck.

    • Happy to oblige! Thanks for listening, and make sure to tune back in for Episode 14. You could win a lovely copy of Return to Mirkwood to go with your Massing!

  4. Props to that new Zealand sounding guy. I think he really knows his stuff. I hope you get him on the show more as I think he was a little shy or something. Be cool to give him a chance to get more confident and put in more as everything he said was some of the best stuff on the show

    • The best part of this community is that it seems like everyone has their own unique perspective or spin on how best to play the game, and it seems like Jared and myself definitely approach deck building in rather different ways. It’s good to break out of old, stagnant patterns of thought by having someone bring up some exciting new ideas!

  5. You guys talked about the new scoring system. Worth noting that not a whole lot of people seem to keep score, or will bother to use the new one. I attempted to come up with a better one:

    Final Threat Level + Number of Threat Lowered Using Card Effects + Number of Hero Defeats – Victory Points Earned

    This formula makes things only slightly more complicated in that it requires you to keep track of 2 variables (or 1 if you don’t lose any heroes). Most importantly, it doesn’t discourage any strategies in particular and eliminates Threat lowering card abuse, while keeping in theme with the original game’s formula of punishing players’ scores for losing heroes.

    My formula allows the game’s already built-in timer, Threat Level, to reward players who finish quests faster with a better score.

    I’d like to hear cardboardoftherings’ thoughts on this.

  6. I really like this new adventure pack. Like John said, the cards in it have a lot of potential.

    I also watch the interview and even if it doesn’t give a lot of information, I was please with what I got. The news that most appeal to me was the fact that they are working on a way to do tournaments, One of the thing that I like the most about Magic, it is organize play. I hope that they will do something similar with this game, I would be very happy to see promotion cards, even if they only Alterned Art version of already existing cards.

    This interview also make me realize that one of my favorite character will not be printed. I would had love to see Thorin Oakenshied. But since the game happen after he die, I doubt that we will see him.

  7. Hi guys, it was – as usual – a very entertaining episode. After so many episodes I enjoy the (very) funny trashtalk more than serious LotR LCG bits… 🙂

    I got Dead Marshes yesterday: the quest feels good and the theme fits all right but it feels like the escape mechanic isn’t polished enough, like they havent thought it through till the end.

    I will house rule it as follows:

    1) Reset the quest to stage 1b if Gollum is not in the staging area at any point during 2b

    2) If Gollum is not in the staging area and you are required to make an escape test (because of a treachery etc) you have to search the discard pile for Gollum and put him into the staging area if you pass the escape check (this prevents tedious games after Gollum has been discarded as a shadow/escape test card).

    Alternatively (iron man houserule):
    If Gollum leaves the staging area at any point during the game, you lose (sucker).

  8. Can not work out how to “reply” t oa post lol…

    But @JJ Brian and TheDarkLighter

    Another crazy UC use is on Faramir.

    “Action: Exhaust Faramir to choose a player. Each character controlled by that player gets +1 Willpower until the end of the phase. ”

    Multi UCs on this guy makes questing trivial. Tap 3 times for +9 will (when only having 3 toons committed to quest) Add in Map-Maker among others and you soon see why Ewoyen is falling out of favour. Questing power is covered. She is almost a waste of a hero slot.

    • I blame that one on Brandon! Whereas I sit around and troll our Facebook page all day when I’m not at work, he must just be too cool to check our gmail account, pffft…

  9. Am I the only one who wishes that the hero in Return To Mirkwood was an elf from Mirkwood not a dwarf? It’s the perfect chance for a Mirkwood elf hero! I mean dwarfs are cool but 3 straight? (counting Khazad-Dum of course)

      • I’m predicting exactly this. I have no idea which specific characters we’ll see, but I imagine that Khazad-dum will introduce a bunch of Dwarf stuff, and then we’ll move on to see a lot of Elf content before heading back into the depths of Moria for more Dwarves, etc.

  10. We have a Mirkwood hero…Legolas. 🙂

    I do agree that Dain II is an odd choice for a hero at this point in the storyline. However, he was friend of the Mirkwood Elves AND Men of Dale AND one of the greatest Dwarf Kings. I suppose, though, since we got Brand as a hero, Dain II makes a bit more sense. But, not more sense than Thranduil (who I was rooting for).

    • I’m going to have to take your word for it that Dain II is a bit of a strange choice for a hero! Every time I think of King Thranduil, though, I can’t *not* immediately picture the awful, animated version of him from the cartoon version of The Hobbit: http://tinyurl.com/7ym7d68

      • Thranduil is goofy, but that movie is awesome. Goblins are much scarier when they sing. Also, it inspired an ENTIRE recurring plot device in South Park. That’s how you know you’ve made your mark as an artist.

    • I think that Thranduil might have been an odd choice, seeing as he’s the guy we’re supposed to be delivering Gollum to this whole time. 🙂

      • I love the animated Hobbit – the singing is just so good. I need to find the LOTR one, though, I don’t think I’ve ever anything but stills from it.

        Having Thranduil as a hero would be a little confusing story-wise, much in the same fashion that the people wanting Balin to be our other Khazad-dum Dwarf hero is…

      • I definitely wouldn’t disagree that Balin would be way out of context as a hero. Dain II just seems along the same thinking of Brand, imo. Part of the bigger story but not connected to the SoM cycle. That’s why I said Thranduil was my choice.

  11. Its been bugging me for 13 episodes who Andrews voice reminds me of…its ‘Hawkeye Pierce’ (Alan Alda) from M.A.S.H. Which may be debuting soon on Canadian netflix. \o/ amiriteamirite?

    Soundalikes a side, GREAT SHOW keep up the good work.

  12. Just started listening to the podcast and have made my way up to this episode in a week or so. Great show and its really got me fired up to play the game (just recently picked it up with all the chapter packs). I’ve been struggling with a Spirit deck, focused mostly on Rohan and would love to see your deck Brian if you have posted it anywhere.

  13. I’m pretty new to the game and new to the show. Great show and I’ve enjoyed listening to the back episodes. I am a huge fan of Rohan (I share the disappointment with Ride to Ruin!) but I’ve been struggling to make a Rohan Spirit/Leadership Deck work. I have been playing primarily solo so far with Eowyn, Theodrid, and Dunhare. I can handle my threat pretty well, but I don’t feel like my questing boosts enough to handle all the enemies I don’t want to engage. I finished the Passage through Mirkwood easily enough, but I’m really struggling with the Journey down the Anduin (pulling 2 trolls at the begining dosn’t help much- its happened twice now !). I’d love to see your deck Brian to get ideas on how to improve mine. Have you posted it anywhere?

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